Questions on my regiment.

[Razorack]

New to this forum and would like some feedback on what I might be doing wrong or confirmation it is just my age.

59 year old male
5’6”
188 lbs
Type 2 diabetic
BF 22%
macros P225 C225 F150
eating on workout days 3300-3500 cals
Non workout days 2700 calls

work out every other day:

chest tris
Back bi’s
Shoulders
Legs

Test Cyp 125 mg x 2 week
Deca 75 x 2 week
CJC w DAC and ipamorellin every day .20mcg

I just cannot see to get rid of the guy and body fat. I understand putting on eight from test and deca, just not sure why I am not seeing better results 5 weeks into this regiment.

i am trying to stay away from junk and eating pretty clean. The peptides can take a while to see the fat loss and I am no spring child chicken but I used to put the mass on by just looking at a syringe.

what might be some things I am doing wrong or any suggestions cycle wise, diet and or nutrition wise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Razorack

 

[EpiStrong]

Consider Glp1s?

 

[Razorack]

I appreciate the feedback but already am on Dulaglutide(Trulicity)weekly. Does seem to help a little. Considering MK-677 in addition to the other peptides.

 

[botk1161]

What's your estrogen at?

 

[Razorack]

Has not been tested since November I go back for blood work end of January. I do take Arimidex when I feels sides at a rate of .5mg every 3 days. Haven’t felt E2 high in a few weeks. But great point and thanks for the feedback. I usually only take it when I feel strong sides. Could be part of the issue.

Razorack

 

[Anabolic66]

MK-677 will add bloat and water weight.
At our "more" advanced age, why not strip all compounds and just use test?
3500 cals at 188 lbs is more than maintenance. Why not go lower there?

Any cardio in the mix? Also be honest with yourself and decide if you are training hard, or just "working out"...
Theres a difference...

 

[Razorack]

MK-677 will add bloat and water weight.
At our "more" advanced age, why not strip all compounds and just use test?
3500 cals at 188 lbs is more than maintenance. Why not go lower there?

Any cardio in the mix? Also be honest with yourself and decide if you are training hard, or just "working out"...
Theres a difference...

All good points and very much appreciate your feedback. I have not seen much bloat in the past with ibutamoren(MK-677). But it does increase my hunger tremendously. Which does at time equate to eating more or grabbing quick sometimes not so healthy filler meals. No don’t really do a lot of cardio if at all.
As for the 3500 calories I have always tried to eat as much a possible to gain. Never really tried to eat less other then back in the day when cutting. I have always been under the old saying you have to eat to grow. Plan was to cut late spring with Test Cyp, Primo, and possibly Anavar, which has always been kind to my blood work. I am curious is at my age cutting down on the calories would still allow me to bulk for now and put on more muscle. I guess I can try to cut down on the calories and see what happens. I appreciate you taking the time to give positive feedback. Thank You!

 

[Razorack]

All good points and very much appreciate your feedback. I have not seen much bloat in the past with ibutamoren(MK-677). But it does increase my hunger tremendously. Which does at time equate to eating more or grabbing quick sometimes not so healthy filler meals. No don’t really do a lot of cardio if at all.
As for the 3500 calories I have always tried to eat as much a possible to gain. Never really tried to eat less other then back in the day when cutting. I have always been under the old saying you have to eat to grow. Plan was to cut late spring with Test Cyp, Primo, and possibly Anavar, which has always been kind to my blood work. I am curious is at my age cutting down on the calories would still allow me to bulk for now and put on more muscle. I guess I can try to cut down on the calories and see what happens. I appreciate you taking the time to give positive feedback. Thank You!

Let me say one thing. With my BF@22% I understand I would be wasting the Anavar as I have always been under impression body fat needed to be close or under 15% for Anavar to be most effective. So I will try the calorie deficit and adding some cardio. Being at week 5 in this cycle I am just now getting saturated with both the test and the deca. So let’s see if adding cardio and calories deficit helps drop some BF.

 

[Dustin07]

59 year old male
5’6”
188 lbs
Type 2 diabetic
BF 22%
macros P225 C225 F150
eating on workout days 3300-3500 cals
Non workout days 2700 calls

IDK what your goal is exactly but at 59 and 5'6" I'd speculate you're 500-1k calories high per day even on gear. you're 18 years older than me and eating 500+ calories more than I did on a bulk. I'm 5'9" and 198lbs for reference.

if you want to be leaner I'd cut to 15% then reassess, personally.
I'd cut the fat content in half, again, personal choice.

 

[Razorack]

IDK what your goal is exactly but at 59 and 5'6" I'd speculate you're 500-1k calories high per day even on gear. you're 18 years older than me and eating 500+ calories more than I did on a bulk. I'm 5'9" and 198lbs for reference.

if you want to be leaner I'd cut to 15% then reassess, personally.
I'd cut the fat content in half, again, personal choice.

Goal is to gain around 8-10 pounds of mass during this cycle and then get as dry as possible late spring. Main goal is to keep muscle and not be a fat ass lol. I agree cutting some calories will most likely help and improve body fat. My issue is that from past experience carbs are as important as protein shooting for a macro ratio of 40 40 20. It is tough being type 2 and keeping blood sugar where it needs to be. But calorie reduction definitely seems to be a major issue with my BF along with cardio. Just never had to add cardio to reduce BF in the past but at my age it does make sense. Thank you for the feedback.

 

[Dustin07]

I honestly don't know enough about being diabetic but it took me about 18 months to gain about 20lbs. the first 4 months I think I gained around an avg of 1lb per month. I started by increasing calories 100/day every week until I found a sweet spot basically. I was really happy with the end result as my lean mass to fat ratio seems to be about 60/40 over that time (more muscle gained than fat).... and I agree, my carbs are usually higher than my protein

 

[Razorack]

I honestly don't know enough about being diabetic but it took me about 18 months to gain about 20lbs. the first 4 months I think I gained around an avg of 1lb per month. I started by increasing calories 100/day every week until I found a sweet spot basically. I was really happy with the end result as my lean mass to fat ratio seems to be about 60/40 over that time (more muscle gained than fat).... and I agree, my carbs are usually higher than my protein

Dustin

yeah I wish I had that luxury of higher carbs. Just seems everytime I raise carbs my blood glucose get into a range I’m not safe with. Glad you found that sweet spot. I think I need to do the same lowering calories until I hit that sweet spot.
Thanks brotha !

 

[Dustin07]

Dustin

yeah I wish I had that luxury of higher carbs. Just seems everytime I raise carbs my blood glucose get into a range I’m not safe with. Glad you found that sweet spot. I think I need to do the same lowering calories until I hit that sweet spot.
Thanks brotha !

I wish I knew more about the diabetes. I have read that fasting can help it, but I just don't understand it well enough. I'm a fan of 30-36hr fasts because I dont' seem to lose any strength and can eat in a surplus on my lifting days but I'm not sure how that plays with diabetes.

 

[Razorack]

I wish I knew more about the diabetes. I have read that fasting can help it, but I just don't understand it well enough. I'm a fan of 30-36hr fasts because I dont' seem to lose any strength and can eat in a surplus on my lifting days but I'm not sure how that plays with diabetes.

Dustn

I have done fasting in the past and it does work to eliminate BF and keep the body burning fat. I have also read though that is can be counter productive to building mass. I am type 2 diabetic which means my body does still produce insulin it just does not utilize it very well. The whole reason I started the peptides as cjc1295 and Ipamorelin work to make the body less resistant to insulin thus improving the way my body uses its own insulin to regulate blood glucose. The only thing with type 2 is it can be controlled by what you eat and exercise. This leads to the catch 22 with carbs and watching the carbs for me that are so important in building muscle and as important as my protein intake. That sweet spot of diet and nutrition is what’s tough for me. Plus my age does play a factor in building and keeping mass. So many factors involved time to try and find what works for my metabolism and calorie intake.
As always thank you for your input.

 

[Dustin07]

I have also read though that is can be counter productive to building mass.

I cannot without a shadow of doubt answer that.
When the guys here introduced me into fasting I encountered studies that indicated fasting can preserve 4x more muscle mass than simply losing weight via caloric deficit, and that felt like my experience. I dropped 10lbs last May and PR'd my main two lifts the same month.

That said, I have seen Layne Norton, a PHD in Nutrition and pro bodybuilder who I do admire, argue with the fasting ideals, I don't think he is in favor of fasting.

However, I have far more luck with fasting myself.

 

[Razorack]

I cannot without a shadow of doubt answer that.
When the guys here introduced me into fasting I encountered studies that indicated fasting can preserve 4x more muscle mass than simply losing weight via caloric deficit, and that felt like my experience. I dropped 10lbs last May and PR'd my main two lifts the same month.

That said, I have seen Layne Norton, a PHD in Nutrition and pro bodybuilder who I do admire, argue with the fasting ideals, I don't think he is in favor of fasting.

However, I have far more luck with fasting myself.

No kidding!

so you fast for 36 hours intermittently. I have only ever done the 18-6 fast for an extended period of time.
If you don’t mind sharing how you do your fast? I would think fasting for that long(36) hours would make it very hard to find the motivation and or energy to work out ED or EOD. I am curious how you do these fast and workout schedule when doing this. I would love it if this worked for me as I know from experience fasting has dropped BF and weight. But curious how the diet fits in before and after the extended fast you do.

 

[Dustin07]

so you fast for 36 hours intermittently. I have only ever done the 18-6 fast for an extended period of time.
If you don’t mind sharing how you do your fast? I would think fasting for that long(36) hours would make it very hard to find the motivation and or energy to work out ED or EOD. I am curious how you do these fast and workout schedule when doing this. I would love it if this worked for me as I know from experience fasting has dropped BF and weight. But curious how the diet fits in before and after the extended fast you do.

I learned a lot from @Hyde and @MrKleen73 and then started digging into the studies, podcasts, and toying with it.
I have found that 18:6 works for fine for maintenance for me.
Running a 36hr fast is easy if I'm distracted, I've found that food seems to be more of a hobby than need for me in that regard.
I don't lift while fasted though, maybe some LISS cardio, a walk/hike, or golfing is my favorite fasted past time.
I tend to eat + lift one day then if I'm going to do a long fast, I do it on my rest days.

I usually have weds as a rest day and run a 20:4 fast most Wednesdays, breaking it at family dinner that night. This is a different week for me though so I'm lifting hard today and thursday and fasting friday.

 

[Razorack]

I learned a lot from @Hyde and @MrKleen73 and then started digging into the studies, podcasts, and toying with it.
I have found that 18:6 works for fine for maintenance for me.
Running a 36hr fast is easy if I'm distracted, I've found that food seems to be more of a hobby than need for me in that regard.
I don't lift while fasted though, maybe some LISS cardio, a walk/hike, or golfing is my favorite fasted past time.
I tend to eat + lift one day then if I'm going to do a long fast, I do it on my rest days.

I usually have weds as a rest day and run a 20:4 fast most Wednesdays, breaking it at family dinner that night. This is a different week for me though so I'm lifting hard today and thursday and fasting friday.

Nice !

I need to read more on this and see if it is doable for me. My initial concern is total calories for a 7 day period. It sounds like this would make sense and work if my body can still build muscle and retain it during fasting. Question? You do this while cycling as well?

 

[Dustin07]

I need to read more on this and see if it is doable for me. My initial concern is total calories for a 7 day period. It sounds like this would make sense and work if my body can still build muscle and retain it during fasting. Question? You do this while cycling as well?

I'm only running light TD's, like epiandro and dhea etc, the other guys would have a lot better feedback than me on that.
But I'm with you, I changed my perspective from daily calories to weekly calories. so far it has treated me well! but you know after 25 years I learn something new every year.

 

[MrKleen73]

Assuming you have a sedentary job, (office job) this would be a good starting place for your maintenance calories. Which goes exactly with my initial thought your training days should probably be around 2700-2800, and your rest days whatever makes sense for your specific goals on fat loss. I would probably shoot for around an average of 2400-2500 per day a week however you want to spread that out. Should give you enough surplus on training days to drive some growth, and not enough to really accrue any fat. If you want to actually cut down 7% BF while maintaining muscle you will want to go even lower on calories.

Also, unless you really enjoy eating differently EOD you can just do straight amount of calories every single day with the same level of success and much easier to prep for. That is what I am doing now with great success.

Since you have type 2 Diabetes, I would focus on getting you carbs in around your training. You can push more carbs during, and after training, knowing that the glut4 translocators are making you much more insulin sensitive due to the weight training. So that is when you will want the bulk of your carbs for the day. Other than that adding fats to your other carb containing meals will help slow digestion, so will eating more fibrous options away from training. Just a couple things to consider regarding that.

You can fast while cycling and will not lose muscle mass. You will lose some of the opportunity for growth but it makes up for itself by how much fat one can burn while fasting. If you are wanting to be leaner and muscular this is definitely one way to go. Sounds like you are a little more concerned with growth than fat loss though, and if that is the case I recommend getting your 4-5 protein containing meals a day to keep MPS revving, and sending the body the signal to grow.

 

[Dustin07]

initial thought your training days should probably be around 2700-2800, and your rest days whatever makes sense for your specific goals on fat loss. I would probably shoot for around an average of 2400-2500 per day a week

assuming 4 lifting days per week then you'd be at 18,700 calories per week vs the current estimated 21,300. that's a 2,600 calorie deficit per week by current standards in theory.

You can fast while cycling and will not lose muscle mass.

reminds me of an interesting study I saw recently where they took a placebo group and anabolic group (I can't remember which compound over X amount of time (12 weeks maybe?) with ZERO lifting for either group and the anabolic group increased lean mass without lifting. I wish I had saved it, was kinda interesting.

 

[Razorack]

Assuming you have a sedentary job, (office job) this would be a good starting place for your maintenance calories. Which goes exactly with my initial thought your training days should probably be around 2700-2800, and your rest days whatever makes sense for your specific goals on fat loss. I would probably shoot for around an average of 2400-2500 per day a week however you want to spread that out. Should give you enough surplus on training days to drive some growth, and not enough to really accrue any fat. If you want to actually cut down 7% BF while maintaining muscle you will want to go even lower on calories.

Also, unless you really enjoy eating differently EOD you can just do straight amount of calories every single day with the same level of success and much easier to prep for. That is what I am doing now with great success.

Since you have type 2 Diabetes, I would focus on getting you carbs in around your training. You can push more carbs during, and after training, knowing that the glut4 translocators are making you much more insulin sensitive due to the weight training. So that is when you will want the bulk of your carbs for the day. Other than that adding fats to your other carb containing meals will help slow digestion, so will eating more fibrous options away from training. Just a couple things to consider regarding that.

View attachment 239249

You can fast while cycling and will not lose muscle mass. You will lose some of the opportunity for growth but it makes up for itself by how much fat one can burn while fasting. If you are wanting to be leaner and muscular this is definitely one way to go. Sounds like you are a little more concerned with growth than fat loss though, and if that is the case I recommend getting your 4-5 protein containing meals a day to keep MPS revving, and sending the body the signal to grow.

Mr Kleen

man I appreciate the Maint cals. Your information makes total sense and what I will shoot for while still training and taking in carbs more on lift days. You guys have been a wealth of information and pointed out some great things I was not taking into consideration. My kid is a desk job so you nailed it with showing me I am definitely taking in way to many cals to lose BF. Very much appreciated Sir! Tons of great info I can actually apply to my routine. Thank You!

 

[Razorack]

Mr Kleen

man I appreciate the Maint cals. Your information makes total sense and what I will shoot for while still training and taking in carbs more on lift days. You guys have been a wealth of information and pointed out some great things I was not taking into consideration. My kid is a desk job so you nailed it with showing me I am definitely taking in way to many cals to lose BF. Very much appreciated Sir! Tons of great info I can actually apply to my routine. Thank You!
[/
Dustin
Gotcha your information is huge to me. Thanks for sharing and hope this continues to work for you. I need to try the dating and concentrate more on overall calories through out the week versus daily intake. Thanks my brotha.

 

[MrKleen73]

Mr Kleen

man I appreciate the Maint cals. Your information makes total sense and what I will shoot for while still training and taking in carbs more on lift days. You guys have been a wealth of information and pointed out some great things I was not taking into consideration. My kid is a desk job so you nailed it with showing me I am definitely taking in way to many cals to lose BF. Very much appreciated Sir! Tons of great info I can actually apply to my routine. Thank You!

Happy to help! I am running a log now documenting my journey to competing this year. We talk about a lot of stuff like this in there, and have some great minds giving input and feedback. You are more than welcome to join in, read through and see some examples of how I have transformed the last 3 months, and lots of discussion on what it took me to do that. Dustin's log is always a wealth of information as well. Anyway, if you want to get in touch with a great tight knit group of guys who support each other start checking out our logs. You will notice we have a group who goes into a lot of the same threads and have great and informative discussions.

 

[Resolve10]

reminds me of an interesting study I saw recently where they took a placebo group and anabolic group (I can't remember which compound over X amount of time (12 weeks maybe?) with ZERO lifting for either group and the anabolic group increased lean mass without lifting. I wish I had saved it, was kinda interesting.

There are a decent number of studies showing this, but you are probably referring to the more (most?) famous one by Bhasin that shows during 10 weeks between placebo no exercise, test no exercise, placebo plus exercise and test plus exercise:
The effects of supraphysiologic doses of testosterone on muscle size and strength in normal men

 

[Beau]

Not what you asked - but a well intended suggestion: I would consider eliminating (or close to it) all added sugar and all highly processed foods/carbs - making sure that your carb intake is from lower glycemic natural foods that will have lower impact on insulin. Obviously, this is intended to deal with insulin-related concerns.

 

[Jstrong20]

If your diabetic I would not recommend mo677 as it will make you even more insulin resistant. What supplement and meds do you use for it? Metformin? Berberine? I'd imagine even the cjc is probably hurting insulin sensitivity to a degree.

 

[Razorack]

Happy to help! I am running a log now documenting my journey to competing this year. We talk about a lot of stuff like this in there, and have some great minds giving input and feedback. You are more than welcome to join in, read through and see some examples of how I have transformed the last 3 months, and lots of discussion on what it took me to do that. Dustin's log is always a wealth of information as well. Anyway, if you want to get in touch with a great tight knit group of guys who support each other start checking out our logs. You will notice we have a group who goes into a lot of the same threads and have great and informative discussions.

Mr Kleen

I definitely will and I really appreciate you and the Team. Once again and thanks for being so informative. Would love to absorb as much as I can seeing as how things have definitely changed from my earlier days of training. Thanks again brotha. Much appreciated.
Razorack

 

[Razorack]

Not what you asked - but a well intended suggestion: I would consider eliminating (or close to it) all added sugar and all highly processed foods/carbs - making sure that your carb intake is from lower glycemic natural foods that will have lower impact on insulin. Obviously, this is intended to deal with insulin-related concerns.

Beau

I barely touch any sugar at all due to being type 2. I do take in some maybe a few grams from protein shakes and fruit that I add to them but morning the realm of slower releasing sugars from berries and lower sugar fruits. Funny thing is I really don’t crave sugar at all since finding out I was type 2 as the less you indulge the less you crave. You input is greatly appreciated brotha. Thanks for responding.
Razorack

 

[Razorack]

If your diabetic I would not recommend mo677 as it will make you even more insulin resistant. What supplement and meds do you use for it? Metformin? Berberine? I'd imagine even the cjc is probably hurting insulin sensitivity to a degree.

Jsyring

yeah having been watching glucose very carefully on the peptides. My Dr who manages my type 2 is who suggested the peptides first putting me on Trulicity who’s is a peptide very similar to semiglutide. I do take Metformin and Jardiance as well. The cjc and ipamorelin barely move my numbers as again my fasting blood sugar is under 150 in the AM after taking the peptides the night before. As long as I watch what I eat they seem to be in check. But you are not first person to say that and it does effect some peolples insulin resistance. As always your feedback is very to this group and from and very much appreciated brotha. Thank for your input as I value all of it from this group.

 

[Razorack]

Jsyring

yeah having been watching glucose very carefully on the peptides. My Dr who manages my type 2 is who suggested the peptides first putting me on Trulicity who’s is a peptide very similar to semiglutide. I do take Metformin and Jardiance as well. The cjc and ipamorelin barely move my numbers as again my fasting blood sugar is under 150 in the AM after taking the peptides the night before. As long as I watch what I eat they seem to be in check. But you are not first person to say that and it does effect some peolples insulin resistance. As always your feedback is very to this group and from and very much appreciated brotha. Thank for your input as I value all of it from this group.

Sorry I messed up your name damn phone spellcheck.

 

[Dustin07]

There are a decent number of studies showing this, but you are probably referring to the more (most?) famous one by Bhasin that shows during 10 weeks between placebo no exercise, test no exercise, placebo plus exercise and test plus exercise:
The effects of supraphysiologic doses of testosterone on muscle size and strength in normal men

I bet you're right, the one I read was worded differently but almost identical results. Still pretty fascinating!

 

[Razorack]

I found this article to be a huge proponent of Intermittent Fasting while still gaining mass from your workouts. Let me know what you guys think about this:

drstephenanton.com/intermittent-fasting-for-bulking/

the two anabolic windows was very interesting.

Razorack

 

[Resolve10]

I found this article to be a huge proponent of Intermittent Fasting while still gaining mass from your workouts. Let me know what you guys think about this:

drstephenanton.com/intermittent-fasting-for-bulking/

the two anabolic windows was very interesting.

Razorack

I mean I had to try not to eye roll too hard at how hyperbolic the wording was on a lot of stuff.

I also have to be careful because I always feel I go against the grain a bit with how much some people love fasting in general, but its not magic.

I also want to first say I implement various fasting stuff all the time too, I am not against it, just think expectations need to be kept in check.

That article starts with a strawman and just builds from there (I almost stopped reading after the initial premise). There are plenty of sensible bulking approaches that don't involve fasting that also don't just mean you have to gain tons of weight and fat in the process. Prolonged periods of caloric intake that is too high leads to too much fat gain and health detriments, you can get the same issues if you eat too much and fast too, long run your overall intake will dictate these changes. I think a slower approach is more beneficial in general though, so if a fasting protocol helps keep that in control it can be helpful in that regard.

The next section is just a mess though. If you care about the hormonal stuff I could elaborate, but its probably where most people place way too much faith with not enough actual evidence it means anything beyond latching to certain buzzwords.

As far as the actual research goes (which they cited one study) it is more of a mixed bag than what is presented. The study cited wasn't done in a bulk/caloric surplus (as most of the initial research has been in regards to weight loss/fat loss). That isn't necessarily a bad thing nor is this a bad study, just seems a bit misrepresentative of the rest of the article. The good news is we have probably enough studies nowadays that show that at the very least if you eat enough protein, get several protein boluses (3 or greater), and potentially time one of your meals pre-workout you can probably be pretty close to getting near optimal muscle building results, so if that style of eating is more sustainable for you or allows you to manage your total intake better it may be a great option. It is potentially even more useful when losing weight though as the shortened windows of eating make managing hunger easier for some (and there’s more research showing muscle retention than gains so far).

That said I'd caution extending the window too long if maximal performance or muscle gains are the primary goal. We don't have as much research for comparison on this yet, but I would still lean towards the general agreement that lean mass retention and improvement is impaired without enough protein feedings over the long term. It would be important to keep in mind the trade offs when making that decision, for some it might be worth slightly worse potential gains in those departments for the other trade offs the fasting windows might provide. If you do go that route the above suggestions plus having the longer fasts being on off days are of even more importance.

Final caveats would be that there isn't a right or wrong. It is important to just have all the info to make the right choice for yourself based on the potential benefits and drawbacks of any approach. Choose what seems easiest and most sustainable, while pushing you towards your most important goals. Finally finally, adding hormones may change the intensity or importance of various factors in regards to this and probably warrants a slightly different deep dive into it.

I apologize for not linking studies this time though, I can link some if needed.

 

[Razorack]

I mean I had to try not to eye roll too hard at how hyperbolic the wording was on a lot of stuff.

I also have to be careful because I always feel I go against the grain a bit with how much some people love fasting in general, but its not magic.

I also want to first say I implement various fasting stuff all the time too, I am not against it, just think expectations need to be kept in check.

That article starts with a strawman and just builds from there (I almost stopped reading after the initial premise). There are plenty of sensible bulking approaches that don't involve fasting that also don't just mean you have to gain tons of weight and fat in the process. Prolonged periods of caloric intake that is too high leads to too much fat gain and health detriments, you can get the same issues if you eat too much and fast too, long run your overall intake will dictate these changes. I think a slower approach is more beneficial in general though, so if a fasting protocol helps keep that in control it can be helpful in that regard.

The next section is just a mess though. If you care about the hormonal stuff I could elaborate, but its probably where most people place way too much faith with not enough actual evidence it means anything beyond latching to certain buzzwords.

As far as the actual research goes (which they cited one study) it is more of a mixed bag than what is presented. The study cited wasn't done in a bulk/caloric surplus (as most of the initial research has been in regards to weight loss/fat loss). That isn't necessarily a bad thing nor is this a bad study, just seems a bit misrepresentative of the rest of the article. The good news is we have probably enough studies nowadays that show that at the very least if you eat enough protein, get several protein boluses (3 or greater), and potentially time one of your meals pre-workout you can probably be pretty close to getting near optimal muscle building results, so if that style of eating is more sustainable for you or allows you to manage your total intake better it may be a great option. It is potentially even more useful when losing weight though as the shortened windows of eating make managing hunger easier for some (and there’s more research showing muscle retention than gains so far).

That said I'd caution extending the window too long if maximal performance or muscle gains are the primary goal. We don't have as much research for comparison on this yet, but I would still lean towards the general agreement that lean mass retention and improvement is impaired without enough protein feedings over the long term. It would be important to keep in mind the trade offs when making that decision, for some it might be worth slightly worse potential gains in those departments for the other trade offs the fasting windows might provide. If you do go that route the above suggestions plus having the longer fasts being on off days are of even more importance.

Final caveats would be that there isn't a right or wrong. It is important to just have all the info to make the right choice for yourself based on the potential benefits and drawbacks of any approach. Choose what seems easiest and most sustainable, while pushing you towards your most important goals. Finally finally, adding hormones may change the intensity or importance of various factors in regards to this and probably warrants a slightly different deep dive into it.

I apologize for not linking studies this time though, I can link some if needed.

Resolve10

great points and great suggestions. I am just diving into the realm of intermittent fasting and trying to see if this makes more sense then just running calorie deficit and keeping fat intake low. Have lots more reading to do but wasn’t sure if that article was legit and made send to others that have more experience with dating and still building muscle. Much appreciated Sir!

Razorack

 

[MrKleen73]

Resolve10

great points and great suggestions. I am just diving into the realm of intermittent fasting and trying to see if this makes more sense then just running calorie deficit and keeping fat intake low. Have lots more reading to do but wasn’t sure if that article was legit and made send to others that have more experience with dating and still building muscle. Much appreciated Sir!

Razorack

As a proponent of fasting, especially for weight loss, and recomping I will say that when it comes to bulking / building muscle I don't think any particular form of fasting is as optimal as 4+ meals a day, with lower fat higher carb intake more for lipids and less fat accrual than anyting otherwise calories and enough carbs does the trick with more fat but if you are someone who gains fat easily expect to gain fat more easily there. Not saying it can't be very close, just not quite as good, and I have been doing some form of fasting probably about a decade now when I want to lean up or recomp. I remember people on here thought I was insane for trying it out, and that I was going to wither away and look malnutritioned. However I always improve by lowering BF, and gaining size. I was on things but even not on I could still do the same just to a lesser degree. Anyway my point is, I don't have any hang ups about fasting at all and prefer it as a lifestyle diet, but I can admit that being fed more often seems to work just a little better for actual bulking / lean gaining. These are just my opinions, but I have about a decade of experience to go off of. I would say a well planned IF is probably just a couple percent less effective, which in the big picture is nothing but like now when I am trying to be competitive it matters so no fasting for me right now. Again these are opinions, not statements of facts.

 

[Leary942]

Do you have a step counter? They're relatively cheap and very good investment in my opinion. With how hectic some of our daily lives can get, it's a very convenient way to keep track of our NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis) movement. Getting 10,000-15,000 steps in everyday is very good way to shed a few pounds. It's not exactly "intense" either, so I wouldn't expect any catabolism to interfere with your training.