Where Are We At on Fasted Cardio?

[AfroPope]

So - I'll keep the background short. I'm in a long, slow cut/recomp after a long bulk for the sake of gaining strength over everything else. I am monitoring calories and macros and losing about .75lbs/week without doing any real cardio. I am doing IF with an eating window of around 12:30pm to 8:30pm.

I work out at night after work, usually get to the gym around 6pm, get home around 7:30, eat a big dinner/post-workout meal, done.

Many many years ago I lost a lot of fat - and have kept most of it off -doing LISS, just running a couple miles a day. I've still got quite a bit to lose and am thinking it's time to add cardio to my routine (ugh). I don't have enough time at night to add cardio to my routines pre- or post-workout, and my gym is barbells-only anyway, no treadmills or ellipticals or whatever.

So, let's say I have convinced myself that I will get up an hour early every day and go for a brisk walk/jog around the lake or do some other sort of LISS in the mornings. No HIIT at this point, just enough to get the body moving and work up a sweat for 30-45 minutes. Is the consensus still that fasted cardio is the way to go for fat loss? It seems like this has been hotly debated for years but I trust y'all.

For such an event, given that I will have eaten in the twelve hours preceding this, I assume that some sort of intra-workout supplementation, BCAAs/EAAs whatever, would be overkill? Or is that wise given that I don't plan to eat for another four-ish hours after?

Anything I'm missing?

Thanks dudes.

 

[johnny412]

So - I'll keep the background short. I'm in a long, slow cut/recomp after a long bulk for the sake of gaining strength over everything else. I am monitoring calories and macros and losing about .75lbs/week without doing any real cardio. I am doing IF with an eating window of around 12:30pm to 8:30pm.

I work out at night after work, usually get to the gym around 6pm, get home around 7:30, eat a big dinner/post-workout meal, done.

Many many years ago I lost a lot of fat - and have kept most of it off -doing LISS, just running a couple miles a day. I've still got quite a bit to lose and am thinking it's time to add cardio to my routine (ugh). I don't have enough time at night to add cardio to my routines pre- or post-workout, and my gym is barbells-only anyway, no treadmills or ellipticals or whatever.

So, let's say I have convinced myself that I will get up an hour early every day and go for a brisk walk/jog around the lake or do some other sort of LISS in the mornings. No HIIT at this point, just enough to get the body moving and work up a sweat for 30-45 minutes. Is the consensus still that fasted cardio is the way to go for fat loss? It seems like this has been hotly debated for years but I trust y'all.

For such an event, given that I will have eaten in the twelve hours preceding this, I assume that some sort of intra-workout supplementation, BCAAs/EAAs whatever, would be overkill? Or is that wise given that I don't plan to eat for another four-ish hours after?

Anything I'm missing?

Thanks dudes.

dude...ima tell ya...do 10-15 min wide open cardio AFTER you lift will supercharge fatloss! and take a good fatburner right before

Naturally Shredded by Vital Alchemy Supplements

Do you want to get Shredded, naturally? Naturally Shredded by Vital Alchemy rips the excess fat from your body and chisels away the undesirable weight!

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[Jstrong20]

It won’t matter but if you are going to do it fasted you my as well add in yohimbe. Start low.

 

[Rad83]

It won’t matter but if you are going to do it fasted you my as well add in yohimbe. Start low.

Yes was gonna mention this,…its the main reason people do fasted cardio, so they can utilize yohimbine.

(I say just get the cardio in when you can. I’m getting great results doing it on days off from lifting, at night, for about an hour)

 

[johnny412]

Yes was gonna mention this,…its the main reason people do fasted cardio, so they can utilize yohimbine.

no that has absolutely nothing to do with the reason people do fasted cardio. where in the f did you get that thought?

 

[AfroPope]

Doesn't matter because every form of yohimbe I've tried gives me nausea at best and immediate debilitating diarrhea at worst so I will not be adding it. Just curious about how much timing matters, if at all.

 

[johnny412]

Doesn't matter because every form of yohimbe I've tried gives me nausea at best and immediate debilitating diarrhea at worst so I will not be adding it. Just curious about how much timing matters, if at all.

rite! and most people that do fasted cardio dont even know about yohimbine!

 

[Darkhorse192]

fasted cardio does have its place despite what most fitness clowns will claim after a few studies came out. That said, when it is appropriate is when you are already very lean and trying to go to super shredded. If you have a decent amount of fat to lose, you just need to do it for the calorie expenditure. The reason it has a place has to do with low circulating insulin and its impact on mobilizing and transportation of the fatty acids. If you have a decent amount of fat to lose still, you don't need to worry about using methods to mobilize stubborn fat, well, because well you have easily accessible fat to burn. That said, there is not really anything detrimental about doing it, so if you prefer/enjoy it you can do it, but it is not necessarily applicable until you are lean trying to get very lean.

people are mentioning yohimbine hcl because it is an alpha-2 androgenic receptor antagonist, meaning it raises blood pressure and increases blood flow. It is used in combo with fasted cardio to improve blood flow aiding in the mobilization and transportation of stubborn fat (stubborn due to poor blood flow) yohimbine is only applicable for people that are already very lean and trying to get very very lean / stage lean. for a regular person that needs to lose 20lbs, it really does not have an appropriate place, and usually makes most people feel like ****.

 

[Smont]

Science will tell you fasted or fed makes no difference.

99% of pro bodybuilders will tell you fasted is better for fat loss.

While I don't know the answer for certain, I feel fasted leads to slightly more fat loss. And If I had to bet, I'd put my money on it because these guys make a living on there body, many of these ppl don't even like doing cardio but they do there fasted cardio because they also feel like it gives them a slight advantage.

With all that said, Lately I use boxing as my cardio and I do it mid day after 2-3 meals so

 

[Smont]

Here's a good point I'd like to bring up or ask about, what do you guys consider cardio.

I see guys (normal size ppl) at the gym in the morning walking on the treadmill. In my opinion that is not cardio. If that's cardio them every minute of my work day is cardio, every time I go to the grocery store it's cardio, it's not fukin cardio lol.

Maybe if your a massive human being then a brisk walk may be cardio because it's getting your heart rate up.

If your not way, way beyond the size of the average person to even the average gym rat, and your in good shape/health, then I feel to call it cardio you need to at bare minimum break a light sweat and you should not be able to hold a full conversation while your doing it.

 

[Darkhorse192]

send me a message if you want to talk more about the best approach to set up your cardio i.e duration, type, time of day, how much you should do and add over time etc. Most people will just say "just do it" and get the calorie expenditure in, but there is some nuance and things that can help, regardless of how much or little fat you have left to lose.

 

[LeanEngineer]

dude...ima tell ya...do 10-15 min wide open cardio AFTER you lift will supercharge fatloss! and take a good fatburner right before

Naturally Shredded by Vital Alchemy Supplements

Do you want to get Shredded, naturally? Naturally Shredded by Vital Alchemy rips the excess fat from your body and chisels away the undesirable weight!

www.strongsupplementshop.com

I'm doing a cut right now (or at least trying to do a cut) and that's what I've been doing a couple days a week after my lifting session is treadmill or stationary bike for post workout cardio. Seems to be working for me.

 

[BEAST73]

For me, the best-fasted cardio is HIIT and following a moderate-high protein, carb, and low-fat post-workout meal.

 

[LeanEngineer]

best-fasted cardio is HIIT

Agreed! The hard part is making myself do HIIT!

 

[KvanH]

Here's a good point I'd like to bring up or ask about, what do you guys consider cardio.

I see guys (normal size ppl) at the gym in the morning walking on the treadmill. In my opinion that is not cardio. If that's cardio them every minute of my work day is cardio, every time I go to the grocery store it's cardio, it's not fukin cardio lol.

Maybe if your a massive human being then a brisk walk may be cardio because it's getting your heart rate up.

If your not way, way beyond the size of the average person to even the average gym rat, and your in good shape/health, then I feel to call it cardio you need to at bare minimum break a light sweat and you should not be able to hold a full conversation while your doing it.

I agree that walking isn't cardio. But I've had a coach tell me, that when doing so called LISS cardio, if you can't hold up a conversation, then your intensity is too high and it's not 'light intensity' anymore I think the definition for LISS is like 50 - 65 % or something of your max HR.

I've never really cared about the heart rate and such and don't own a pulse meter. I just do longer distance running (30-60 mins) and intervall sprinting on different days. They have different benefits over another. And just play ball games like basketball, when ever I have the chance.

One thing I don't like is the idea of "fat burning HR level", where you want to keep your HR at the level where your body can use fat as fuel and then make the conlcusion, that that is the best excercise for fat loss. When in reality it only applies for the duration of the excercise, which will be very short time period and with higher intensity, you'll raise your calorie consumption for longer period of time, like for days possibly. I don't know if the fat burning HR level has been a thing anymore, but I remember it being talked about in the past and every now and then I see it pop up again.

I think @Darkhorse192 explained the benefit of fasted cardio well and I also believe it to be beneficial for bodybuilders, like Smont said. But for us average lifters/hobby athletes, I would just go with how you like to do your cardio. I hate doing fasted anything (or in the morning), I feel weak, so I don't do it anymore. I'd bet that for most people, 45 mins of fed cardio is better, than 30 mins of fasted cardio.

Btw only the first paragraph was in reply to you Smont. Rest is just my rambling about the subject.

 

[Smont]

I agree that walking isn't cardio. But I've had a coach tell me, that when doing so called LISS cardio, if you can't hold up a conversation, then your intensity is too high and it's not 'light intensity' anymore I think the definition for LISS is like 50 - 65 % or something of your max HR.

I've never really cared about the heart rate and such and don't own a pulse meter. I just do longer distance running (30-60 mins) and intervall sprinting on different days. They have different benefits over another. And just play ball games like basketball, when ever I have the chance.

One thing I don't like is the idea of "fat burning HR level", where you want to keep your HR at the level where your body can use fat as fuel and then make the conlcusion, that that is the best excercise for fat loss. When in reality it only applies for the duration of the excercise, which will be very short time period and with higher intensity, you'll raise your calorie consumption for longer period of time, like for days possibly. I don't inow if the fat burning HR level has been a thing anymore, but I remember it being talked about ik the past and every now and then I see it pop up again.

I think @Darkhorse192 explained the benefit of fasted cardio well and I also believe it to be beneficial for bodybuilders, like Smont said. But for us average lifters/hobby athletes, I would just go with how you like to do your cardio. I hate doing fasted anything (or in morning), I feel weak, so I don't do it anymore. I'd bet that for most people, 45 mins of fed cardio is better, than 30 mins of fasted cardio.

Btw only the first paragraph was in reply to you Smont. Rest is just my rambling about the subject.

On a side note. I don't personally find myself getting a better lifting workout in a fed state vs a fasted state. I can put up the same numbers and lift with the same intensity first thing in the morning as I can in the afternoon after 3 or 4 meals. Now to be fair, I use intra workout carbs and eaa's and I eat a meal right before bed 90% of the time and the other 10% of the time I wake up in the middle of the night I need a protein bar lol. So I might not ever be truly fasted.

But the point im trying to make is, if these things have a real advantage it's small enough that the average Joe won't know the difference. Now if you a top level competitive athlete or bodybuilder. That 1-2% difference might make or Break you

 

[KvanH]

On a side note. I don't personally find myself getting a better lifting workout in a fed state vs a fasted state. I can put up the same numbers and lift with the same intensity first thing in the morning as I can in the afternoon after 3 or 4 meals. Now to be fair, I use intra workout carbs and eaa's and I eat a meal right before bed 90% of the time and the other 10% of the time I wake up in the middle of the night I need a protein bar lol. So I might not ever be truly fasted.

But the point im trying to make is, if these things have a real advantage it's small enough that the average Joe won't know the difference. Now if you a top level competitive athlete or bodybuilder. That 1-2% difference might make or Break you

Agreed on the bolded.

To continue your side note, lol; It's funny how much there is difference in how the time of the day affects or doesn't affect people. I had a workout buddy, that allways wanted to go to the gym as early as possible, cause' he felt fresh early and wanted the WO 'out of the way', so the rest of the day is free for what ever action. I'm the complete opposite and we couldn't workout together for long due to that.

To give an example; when I worked double shift, at first on the evening shift, I tried to go to the gym before work, which started at 2 pm, but I was clearly weaker and had less energy compared to evening/night WO. So I switched to going to the gym after work even on the evening shift weeks, so I was at the gym about 10.30 pm and it was a lot better for me. I'm stronger in 12 am, than I am at 12 pm..

 

[Smont]

Agreed on the bolded.

To continue your side note, lol; It's funny how much there is difference in how the time of the day affects or doesn't affect people. I had a workout buddy, that allways wanted to go to the gym as early as possible, cause' he felt fresh early and wanted the WO 'out of the way', so the rest of the day is free for what ever action. I'm the complete opposite and we couldn't workout together for long due to that.

To give an example; when I worked double shift, at first on the evening shift, I tried to go to the gym before work, which started at 2 pm, but I was clearly weaker and had less energy compared to evening/night WO. So I switched to going to the gym after work even on the evening shift weeks, so I was at the gym about 10.30 pm and it was a lot better for me. I'm stronger in 12 am, than I am at 12 pm..

Ya, I'm sure everyone is going to be different. I mean think about how many variables there are. Are you a morning person? If you're not a morning person and it takes you a while to wake up and get moving for the day then you're probably not going to do very good training first thing in the morning whether you're fasted or not. But if you're the type of person who can hop out of bed get dressed and go straight to work with no problems then you'll probably do a little bit better with a morning workout. Then you have to take into consideration just what you're used to doing, if you do something at a certain time of day on a regular basis then you're probably going to perform better at that time then if you get thrown off schedule and have to do it randomly.

Some ppl turn into a slug after a meal, those people probably are going to want to do their pre-workout meal at least 2 hours before the gym or they're going to be tired and sluggish, or puke. On the other hand I've seen guys literally eating their meal at the gym. I'm not talking chicken and rice but I've seen guys drinking a shake and eating fruit during there workout. I've even seen a guy with a big bag of trail mix snacking on it his entire workout lol.

There's absolutely no scenario where I wanted to eat solid food during my workout lol

 

[KvanH]

Ya, I'm sure everyone is going to be different. I mean think about how many variables there are. Are you a morning person? If you're not a morning person and it takes you a while to wake up and get moving for the day then you're probably not going to do very good training first thing in the morning whether you're fasted or not. But if you're the type of person who can hop out of bed get dressed and go straight to work with no problems then you'll probably do a little bit better with a morning workout. Then you have to take into consideration just what you're used to doing, if you do something at a certain time of day on a regular basis then you're probably going to perform better at that time then if you get thrown off schedule and have to do it randomly.

Some ppl turn into a slug after a meal, those people probably are going to want to do their pre-workout meal at least 2 hours before the gym or they're going to be tired and sluggish, or puke. On the other hand I've seen guys literally eating their meal at the gym. I'm not talking chicken and rice but I've seen guys drinking a shake and eating fruit during there workout. I've even seen a guy with a big bag of trail mix snacking on it his entire workout lol.

There's absolutely no scenario where I wanted to eat solid food during my workout lol

Yeah, the time of the day that you've used to lifting is another good point. I remember some powerlifters telling me when ever they have a comp coming, they start working out the same time of the day, that the upconing comp lifts will be done, several weeks before the comp.

I too have seen some people eat fruits and even candy in the middle of their workout, lol.

I believe me not liking fasted activity is way more (if not completely) about the time of day, than being fasted. The morning is just the only time of the day I'm fasted.

 

[AfroPope]

Yeah, lifting at night after a couple of light meals and then eating my largest meal of the day after my workout is just second nature at this point. I actually feel better during the day if I lift in the morning, but I can lift more weight on my current routine and I'm very much not a morning person.

 

[LeanEngineer]

Yeah, lifting at night after a couple of light meals and then eating my largest meal of the day after my workout is just second nature at this point. I actually feel better during the day if I lift in the morning, but I can lift more weight on my current routine and I'm very much not a morning person.

I should probably be doing something like this where I eat my largest meal post workout. Right now my largest meal is either my first or second to last meal and I typically workout within an hour of my first meal. Give it some time to digest before working out. I tend to lean toward morning workouts cause by the end of the day i just want to relax and not feel like I "have" to go workout.