No Excuses & No ***** ***: A Stupid People's Guide to PCT

[Sleepy Hollow]

Bump

if you read his article in the beginning, Big Cat clearly states nolvadex/ clomid are not steroids. they are serm's. . . he also writes on arimidex, which is an AI. . . just do a little more reading bro

 

[ugab37]

this is probably a stupid question but is a SERM, a Cortisol blocker, and a test booster all necessary for a 4 week cycle of Winstrol at 50 mg every other day???

Yes, but you should really know a lot more than that before you do a cycle. You should have your entire pct layed out and in hand before you even start.

A simple and effective protocol is as follows:

Torem(SERM): 90/60/30/30
LeanXtreme 2(cortisol): (start on day 15 of pct) 0/0/4/3/2/1
Drive(Nat. Test booster): 6/6/6/6

or, depending on your cycle duration and compounds used, you could replace Torem with some atd at 3/3/2/1 or hyperdrolx2(6-Bromo) at 6/4/4/2

 

[ugab37]

guys can you link me to where i can buy PCT products? I look in the store and don't know what to buy

Check out my layout and use hypx2 or atd in place of torem. Then you can get everything you need from nutraplanet. Just remember, that Torem is available through prescription only and you should do some RESEARCH if you want to know more about its effects.

 

[delsolrob]

guys can you link me to where i can buy PCT products? I look in the store and don't know what to buy

check out the rules bud, you're not allowed to ask for sources.

do some research.

 

[lonewolf0420]

IF I were tapering down with Novedex toward the end of my PCT, would dosing one cap every other day be a good way to finish off?

 

[Force of Green]

My personal experience: NEVER use over the counter PCT supps for a good PCT. You can run them in conjunction with, but never to replace a SERM.

 

[edwards]

bump for nublets

 

[Pemmican]

Toremifene:
Reputation: Very popular on this board
Pros: Much less toxic.
Con's: $$$$$expensive$$$$$
Popular Dosages (for a 4-week cycle): 120-240mg/120mg/60mg/30mg


i have liquid toremifene 60mg/ml...are these servings still valid?

And yess, very expensive

 

[edwards]

Toremifene:
Reputation: Very popular on this board
Pros: Much less toxic.
Con's: $$$$$expensive$$$$$
Popular Dosages (for a 4-week cycle): 120-240mg/120mg/60mg/30mg


i have liquid toremifene 60mg/ml...are these servings still valid?

And yess, very expensive

yes. i ran it at 120/90/60/30.

 

[mrntnk1]

after i got back from the core i started getting back into lifting... since i was away i didnt really keep track of the supp./ph world... back when it was cool to shoot deca durabolin all anyone used as a pct was 6 oxo... and now geeze what the hell happened now you guys got serm's and all this crazzy... craziness i guess thats the best way to put it... im looking to get into havok... im not looking to get real serious about it just yet i wanna kinda just get my toes wet.. so i know you have said it is a GOOD IDEA to use a serm but is there a point where 6 oxo will do the trick for a low dose of havok and i know you have said no matter what you would still do a serm.... maybe its just me being lost in all this stuff but damn im trying to read everything about this kinda stuff and im still lost to a degree... HELP!!!!!!

will 4 weeks on a suggested dose of havok with a pct of torem at 120/90/60/30 be ok..... and i hear about liv-52 for the liver while im running all this... what you guys think... other than DAMN NEWB... GET WITH THE PROGRAM!!..

 

[delsolrob]

using Torem for a Havoc PCT should be fine...havoc is a fairly mild substance (compared to some of the DS's that are out there).

I would check out cycle support by Applied Nutriceuticals...this will help cover many of your support supp requirements.

you'll probably also want to consider adding some other accessories to your cycle and PCT...like cortisol control, possible test booster, etc.

also, havoc is slightly androgenic...keep something on hand in case you get some prolactin based sides (ie: lactating). dosing p-5-p has been a cheap and effective way of combatting this (use when sides occur).

my only other response is to do more research, there are tons of threads on here discussing havoc/epi cycles...READ!

 

[Dedicated3]

Question on my PCT

Im thinking to buy the Havoc/Cycle Support/Post Cycle Support Stack which is on sale right now through NP. My question is should i just go with the Havoc/Cycle support stack and then use either comid or nolva for my pct or... post cycle+ nolva/clomid or... is post cycle enough for this prohormone (which i would think not)

 

[arizonanewbie]

I am 2 weeks into PCT after a 4 wk Havoc cycle and I am just using Cycle Support, Post Cycle Support, I3C and Fenugreek. So far I've been keeping gains fine, no titty issues, and feeling fine. Sometimes I get a little emotional, but not a big deal.

 

[mixedup]

My personal experience: NEVER use over the counter PCT supps for a good PCT. You can run them in conjunction with, but never to replace a SERM.

Just wondering what OTC PCT only did you run and what were the bad results? was it gyno related, low test, weight strength loss and also what cycle did you try the OTC PCT on? thanks

 

[Dedicated3]

Would it be a good idea, to be completely safe, to take both Post cycle therepy OTC supplement plus a SERM at their regular dosages for my pct? Also, What is the best type of diet when wating to lean up and get cut when on Havoc. I'm 5'9" 185-190 lbs, athlete, probably aroun 8-9%bf.

 

[freezito]

awesome thread even though it took me hours too completely read threw it. totally worth my time

 

[musle grower]

please help!:frustrate i am going with halotest 25 halodrol 50:jaw:clone for FIrst cycle????? and tomoxifen 40/40/20/20/ is this good for 1st hormone use

 

[delsolrob]

looks like you're pretty new on here bud...so, welcome to AM!

I'm sure that if you do a little bit of searching you will find tons of information on PCT for Halodrol/clones.

if you still have questions about laying out your PCT (especially after reading the information in this thread), then start a thread with more specifics about your proposed cycle.

 

[TheAlchemist]

great thread, now i gotta go find some examples of pcts

 

[shinivan]

please help!:frustrate i am going with halotest 25 halodrol 50:jaw:clone for FIrst cycle????? and tomoxifen 40/40/20/20/ is this good for 1st hormone use

BUMP for this one!!

 

[THETEST]

Goat semen......lots and lots of goat semen. Don't eat real food, just goat semen. If you stick to this plan, I can guarantee in less than a week something will happen

What does that come in?

 

[THETEST]

thats great advice! But i think ill try my luck...Last time i gained 15 lbs and was able to maintain. Call me old school..

Better have a short cycle - a long one will drive your test levels to 0 - and without some of what is listed, you will lose your gains. Been there - done that.

 

[CopyCat]

Bumping this thread because it needs to be.

 

[jtnixit]

awesome ! better become a sticky !

 

[thesinner]

What does that come in?

It only comes in loads. :usa2:

 

[CopyCat]

It only comes in loads. :usa2:

There he is:biglaugh:

 

[Liquid13]

SERM's are also cheaper than otc pct so it only seems the most intelligent thing to do.

 

[DLM5]

BUMP.
bcuz some guys just don't have a clue and they need to read this thread..
it should be a PCT section sticky
REPS forever to thesinner

 

[2k2ser]

Great classic thread! Should be sticky, as mentioned above.

Maybe it could be updated with some of the newer products available also. Example, do the products still perform as good/ better than newer products out today.

 

[FilipeBR]

Thank you very much, as a Newbie I must say this clarified many things for me!

 

[jumpcannon]

so what about pct's that you can buy (reversitrol, anvanced pct, etc.) that claim to increase natural test and block estrogen? is this stuff crap? not work? not recommended or what?

 

[delsolrob]

so what about pct's that you can buy (reversitrol, anvanced pct, etc.) that claim to increase natural test and block estrogen? is this stuff crap? not work? not recommended or what?

these products have the potential to provide recovery for mild cycles. post cycle support by AI was originally designed as a PCT for mild Epi Cycles...should work well for standard h-drol cycles too. Definately not something I would trust after a SD (or other potent AAS) cycle though!

I think Advanced PCT by AX was designed for 3AD too...very mild!

 

[supershah]

Is Nolvadex XT considered a SERM? or just something close to it but not powerful enough ?

 

[lonewolf0420]

Is Nolvadex XT considered a SERM? or just something close to it but not powerful enough ?

No, its a AI(aromatase inhibitor). It prevents the conversion to estrogen.

A SERM helps prevent the absorption of estrogen.

 

[LAGear]

This is a great thread. Thank you very much from a noob who is desperately trying to wrap his head around the innumerable threads, posts, sites and opinions about this subject. Because of all the conflicting information I feel like the best I'll ever be able to do is make an educated guess so I'm trying to get as educated as I can get in order to make the best guess :-|

Seems like the contributors to this thread are firmly in the "always use a SERM" camp. But there hasn't been any discussion about PP's TRS stack, or more specifically their Sustain Alpha product.

PP claims that this alone is sufficient for PCT with nearly any steroid, but especially for a mild one like Havoc/Epi. There are some message boards where people enthusiastically buy into this claim. Any thoughts about that from this group?

If there's no way around using a SERM I'm interested in possibly using Toremifene. The only con of Toremifene that's mentioned is "$$$$$expensive$$$$$." No other sides or other cons of using this SERM? How expensive is this stuff, what will it cost for a full PCT of 120-240mg/120mg/60mg/30mg? If cost isn't a factor is this the best/safest/ideal SERM option?

TIA

 

[masterX]

...

 

[AmericnMuscle]

This should be made a sticky and bookmarked.

 

[masterX]

...

 

[Ubiyca]

Clomid is usually stacked withh Nolvadex for the first few weeks. The idea being to kickstart HPTA recovery without the 'weird' clomid side effects. Clomid is actually a special estrogen, and when you're on it, you definitely act like a little b*tch.

Underrated? A little bit. Some people (like Chad) are oldschool and run clomid-only PCT's.

Bitchiness effect of clomid is highly dose dependant.

 

[rammy222]

helped me a ton thanks

 

[seanhammond71]

Is AG-Guys and Chemone research still legitimate? Also, what legal ramifications could there possibly be if I buy a product off one of these sites w/ my creditcard?

 

[EasyEJL]

Is AG-Guys and Chemone research still legitimate? Also, what legal ramifications could there possibly be if I buy a product off one of these sites w/ my creditcard?

Do you want potential ramifications or likely ramifications? Likely ramifications are none, I can't recall ever hearing of an arrest for ordering research chemicals. Potential ramifications? SERMs or erectile dysfunction meds qualify as "Legend Drugs" as they are prescription only compounds inside the US. So they are illegal to possess without a prescription for them for personal use. So unless you are registered as a research facility they would be illegal to own. I have never seen this enforced for these sort of items, but it doesn't mean it cant be. If there were a fire in the house, and in the post investigation they found it, they could arrest you for it.... Would they? I doubt it, but the risk is there

 

[danny123]

This is a great thread. Thank you very much from a noob who is desperately trying to wrap his head around the innumerable threads, posts, sites and opinions about this subject. Because of all the conflicting information I feel like the best I'll ever be able to do is make an educated guess so I'm trying to get as educated as I can get in order to make the best guess :-|

Seems like the contributors to this thread are firmly in the "always use a SERM" camp. But there hasn't been any discussion about PP's TRS stack, or more specifically their Sustain Alpha product.

PP claims that this alone is sufficient for PCT with nearly any steroid, but especially for a mild one like Havoc/Epi. There are some message boards where people enthusiastically buy into this claim. Any thoughts about that from this group?

If there's no way around using a SERM I'm interested in possibly using Toremifene. The only con of Toremifene that's mentioned is "$$$$$expensive$$$$$." No other sides or other cons of using this SERM? How expensive is this stuff, what will it cost for a full PCT of 120-240mg/120mg/60mg/30mg? If cost isn't a factor is this the best/safest/ideal SERM option?

TIA

i second this question, can someone please answer?

Very nice thread btw.

 

[LAGear]

i second this question, can someone please answer?

Very nice thread btw.

Wow. Interesting you quoted that post from me. I've come a long way since making that post.

This site is way more anti-SERM than I thought when I posted that. However, I am very pro SERM. You will find that there is a clear bias towards OTC PCT on sites like this with very active supplement company reps. Sites with less/no rep activity stand solidly behind SERMs which have been tested tried & true for many years before all these OTC products showed up.

Torem for PCT will set you back about $80. About twice as much as clomid or nolva but worth it.

Also, dosing Torem 120-240mg/120mg/60mg/30mg is insane. Even for really suppressive gear I don't think you'll find many people these days who would recommend such high doses in the first two weeks and certainly not for something like epi/hdrol.

For my first cycle (five weeks with hdrol) my PCT is Torem with Formex, plus natty test booster and cort blocker. So far so good.

As for SA, there are a lot of people that have used it with success but it's expensive and a bit harder to use since it's a topical.

HTH

 

[stxnas]

I'm not sure if you guys have seen this thread about Sustain Alpha. You might be interested in you're looking to use Sustain Alpha in replacement of a SERM. I'm not condoning nor condemning this thread, I just think it's interesting:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/102527-prevent-testicular-shrinkage.html

 

[3PeteNC]

No, its a AI(aromatase inhibitor). It prevents the conversion to estrogen.

A SERM helps prevent the absorption of estrogen.

SERMs do not prevent the "absorption of estrogen". you do not eat estrogen, it is made in the body by the interaction of testosterone with the aromatase enzyme. SERMs attach to the estrogen receptor and prevent estrogen binding and subsequent effects.

 

[jgasbo1]

Just stumbled on this thread. Great work bro!

 

[Coopster]

Sorry fairly new to this forum and have been out of the game for some time now. The products mentioned on the pct are they legal and if so where do you find them. Want to be careful not to break any forum rules. But by the names of some of the items im guessing they can be bought online. Thanks you guys have alot of good info here.

 

[luclyluciano]

subbed for future reference!

 

[delsolrob]

Sorry fairly new to this forum and have been out of the game for some time now. The products mentioned on the pct are they legal and if so where do you find them. Want to be careful not to break any forum rules. But by the names of some of the items im guessing they can be bought online. Thanks you guys have alot of good info here.

sorry bud, it's against the rules to ask for sources. a simple search on google should get you going.

the majority of the products are either going to be prescription or research chemicals.