Anavar or Dbol

[Punkrocker]

All right I'm going to jump on a cycle for a few months. A friend of mine is going to be competing and wants me to train with them and I dumped my fiance so we're going to go hard for the next few months and I'm going to be on a pretty good schedule so I think it's a good time to take something. My current stack is 400test and 280primo. Now the question is, should I add in anavar as an oral or should I do Dbol. The reason I ask this question is because primo is a DHT as is anavar. Would it be Overkill to be using two dhts? Should I throw in dbol because it aromatizes and is not a DHT derivative? Wat do?

 

[Stacks1]

I don't see any issue with running a DHT like anavar alongside 280 primo, which seems like a very low dose. You can run dbol if you want, depending on your goals.

I try not to talk too much about dbol because it seems to be so hated nowadays for some reason. I think it either agrees with you or disagrees with you. For me, it's been very kind to me. I run it at a pretty low dose but I get a nice increase in size and strength from it. The best part, I get no real sides from it. None of the estrogen or high BP sides that everyone complains about. As a matter of fact, even with the weight gain and water weight, my BP was literally unchanged for the entire cycle. Even though I've never ran if for more than 6 weeks, I've considered running it for 8 - 10 weeks at 15 - 25mgs just because I felt like I can and feel great on it. It's cheap as hell too. Everybody says it's old school and outdated now but I don't know... I like it.

But if you want to go for that lean vascular summer look, it's going to be hard to beat anavar, which would definitely be superior to dbol if that is your goal.

 

[Punkrocker]

I don't see any issue with running a DHT like anavar alongside 280 primo, which seems like a very low dose. You can run dbol if you want, depending on your goals.

I try not to talk too much about dbol because it seems to be so hated nowadays for some reason. I think it either agrees with you or disagrees with you. For me, it's been very kind to me. I run it at a pretty low dose but I get a nice increase in size and strength from it. The best part, I get no real sides from it. None of the estrogen or high BP sides that everyone complains about. As a matter of fact, even with the weight gain and water weight, my BP was literally unchanged for the entire cycle. Even though I've never ran if for more than 6 weeks, I've considered running it for 8 - 10 weeks at 15 - 25mgs just because I felt like I can and feel great on it. It's cheap as hell too. Everybody says it's old school and outdated now but I don't know... I like it.

But if you want to go for that lean vascular summer look, it's going to be hard to beat anavar, which would definitely be superior to dbol if that is your goal.

I just want to grow without getting fat lol

 

[Stacks1]

I just want to grow without getting fat lol

As you know, diet is what will ultimately determine if you get fat. Dbol will definitely make the scale move up quicker though because of the additional water weight.

 

[Punkrocker]

As you know, diet is what will ultimately determine if you get fat. Dbol will definitely make the scale move up quicker though because of the additional water weight.

Watched a few videos last night. Diet is clearly key as what the other dudes said. Seems that anavar can assist my goal with less side effects. Upping my carbs and gonna do the anavar

 

[Hyde]

I love Dbol, but I can’t tolerate it unfortunately. I wish I could because as mentioned it’s cheap as hell, get it anywhere, and very effective. Awesome mood on it too. Makes me strong.

Var is great because I can’t even tell I’m on anything. I just get better over time. Also good for faster healing.

Both hit HDL pretty good, but Var doesn’t really have other sides, besides the hit to your wallet - Dbol can have plenty.

 

[Punkrocker]

I love Dbol, but I can’t tolerate it unfortunately. I wish I could because as mentioned it’s cheap as hell, get it anywhere, and very effective. Awesome mood on it too. Makes me strong.

Var is great because I can’t even tell I’m on anything. I just get better over time. Also good for faster healing.

Both hit HDL pretty good, but Var doesn’t really have other sides, besides the hit to your wallet - Dbol can have plenty.

First day on var. Good pump. So far so good besides the damn heartburn lol

 

[Hyde]

First day on var. Good pump. So far so good besides the damn heartburn lol

I get it even worse on Dbol, 1st day, while Var takes 2-3 weeks usually for me. Of course a lot of Var is actually Dbol, so if you didn’t test it I guess that’s always a possibility lol.

Greek yogurt with a meal every day for probiotics, and 15g Glutamine in a cup of room temp water 2-3x a day after meals when it hits can also help manage things.

Famotidine/Pepcid AC can be helpful, for a couple months. It says do not use longer than 2 weeks, so I can’t tell you the internal ramifications of going longer. Only that I have done so several times. It’s a process to come off of it and get things balanced right though, but beats using a PPI.

 

[Rad83]

I take a generic Prilosec daily

 

[Hyde]

I take a generic Prilosec daily

I realize it’s not as simple as saying “You probably shouldn’t do that,” but….if there’s things you could do that would allow you to get off it, I would explore those.

 

[Rad83]

I realize it’s not as simple as saying “You probably shouldn’t do that,” but….if there’s things you could do that would allow you to get off it, I would explore those.

I gotcha man…I am. Every so often I need to run a 14 day course or two…

Shouldn’t have said it like I did originally, my bad all

 

[bell1986]

Dbol will feel great at first and after a week you will notice some crazy water retention. I also had terrible headaches on it. Sad because it's crazy cheap and does actually build some mass underneath all that water. The e2 on it though is a gyno bomb. It was dbol that gave me gyno. I had raloxifene on hand though that got rid of this thankfully.

Anavar is an amazing compound. Everyone thinks it's very mild. Which it is in terms of mass but the strength it brings is incredible. I don't know it's mechanism but you just notice your weights become easier and easier. You can run it for a good 8 weeks + aswell.

I would use anavar all day long.

 

[Hyde]

I gotcha man…I am. Every so often I need to run a 14 day course or two…

Shouldn’t have said it like I did originally, my bad all

Non that’s good, that’s what it was meant for. Something to help get things under control when it’s really bad.

 

[mase1]

Go to Var dosage?

 

[Punkrocker]

Go to Var dosage?

I have 25mg tablets. I cut them up into 1/4ths and take them 3 times a day. So that would be about 18mg daily. Im definitely feeling it

 

[Hyde]

I have 25mg tablets. I cut them up into 1/4ths and take them 3 times a day. So that would be about 18mg daily. Im definitely feeling it

I know this is a cliche saying, but that’s a chick dose! Unless you are going to be on it for many months or just want the collagen synthesis and glucocorticoid inhibition.

 

[mase1]

Yeah the dosage I hear just makes anavar too expensive for me. Better off with S4 and horrible vision for 6-8 weeks. Lol

 

[wfreiling]

I know this is a cliche saying, but that’s a chick dose! Unless you are going to be on it for many months or just want the collagen synthesis and glucocorticoid inhibition.

I’m currently running it at 75mg/day along with test/ primo

 

[mase1]

I’m currently running it at 75mg/day along with test/ primo

That's expensive for my prices. DM if your price isn't, lol

 

[Smont]

I have 25mg tablets. I cut them up into 1/4ths and take them 3 times a day. So that would be about 18mg daily. Im definitely feeling it

I would cut them in half and do half a tab 3x day or do a whole tab 2x day.

 

[Hyde]

I would cut them in half and do half a tab 3x day or do a whole tab 2x day.

50mg is where it’s at

If it was cheaper I would try 75 though for sure!

 

[Smont]

50mg is where it’s at

If it was cheaper I would try 75 though for sure!

Price is what keeps me away from it because i know il end up @ 100mg sooner or later. I hate not having like 2-3x the amount i need of things in case i wanna expariment With pushing something up.

 

[Smont]

I usually end up getting winni over var. I dont reccomend 100 winni, did it for about 2 weeks and felt like crap, one of the few times something made me feel like that

 

[Hyde]

I usually end up getting winni over var. I dont reccomend 100 winni, did it for about 2 weeks and felt like crap, one of the few times something made me feel like that

Allegedly, it’s the worst oral there is for HDL. Worse than Superdrol, Dbol, etc.

Of course, it’s typically used most for end of a bodybuilding prep where estrogen is also getting buried (and maybe with lots of mast, and/or some Tren), so maybe if used in an off-season or strength phase it would be more typical. But the specific use case for Winny is really a big part of the culprit of that?

I have always stayed away from it due to the connective tissue stiffening/remodeling, and don’t intend to experiment.

 

[BigGame84]

Are there any ancillaries worth getting for a cycle of Var? I know it destroys lipids, is something like Bergamont going to help the damage at all?

 

[Hyde]

Are there any ancillaries worth getting for a cycle of Var? I know it destroys lipids, is something like Bergamont going to help the damage at all?

I had my estrogen super high on test/deca last month of a meet prep. I was on Raloxifene and no AI, using citrus bergamot, Curcumin, Berberine, fish oil all twice a day. My HDL week of the meet was still 29 after 6 weeks of 50mg Var.

Estrogen does a lot for lipids, as do SERMs (they act somewhat like estrogens). And those supplements all do help a little. GW at 5-10mg also helps slow the HDL crash. Cardio will also keep it higher than without.

 

[Smont]

Allegedly, it’s the worst oral there is for HDL. Worse than Superdrol, Dbol, etc.

Of course, it’s typically used most for end of a bodybuilding prep where estrogen is also getting buried (and maybe with lots of mast, and/or some Tren), so maybe if used in an off-season or strength phase it would be more typical. But the specific use case for Winny is really a big part of the culprit of that?

I have always stayed away from it due to the connective tissue stiffening/remodeling, and don’t intend to experiment.

I got no bloods on that run but id imagine something was going on. I wasnt on long. Winni has zero negetives on my joints that i have ever been able to tell. Always felt good from that aspect, but i felt run down and a bit Nauseous, which probably helped me make the 198lb class lol, cus i was like 210 a week out if memory serves me correct

 

[BigGame84]

Not to derail this thread but it still has to do with Var....

How much of a difference might one see with going with 11-KT instead of Var? I'd assume Var is stronger since it's a drug (fat loss/recomp) but sides with 11-KT would be much less than Var. Both kind of have the same mechanism.

 

[Hyde]

Not to derail this thread but it still has to do with Var....

How much of a difference might one see with going with 11-KT instead of Var? I'd assume Var is stronger since it's a drug (fat loss/recomp) but sides with 11-KT would be much less than Var. Both kind of have the same mechanism.

Var doesn’t really have sides, besides the lipid-skewing and potentially painful pumping (lots of guys who run and such report they can’t on Var due to crippling shin pumps). I definitely remember feeling better on Var than 11kt, having using some Var like 4 times now and 11kt at least twice.

I asked someone about them using 11kt and their lipids recently coincidentally, and he told me that while he doesn’t pay super close attention he didn’t notice any particularly bad skewing sticking out from bloods before and after runs of it. Said he gets bloods every 3-4 months and nothing stood out. For whatever that’s worth.

 

[BBiceps]

I’m late to the party but I do 400/400 Test/Primo and pulse the Dbol 3x a week. I would run that cycle forever but unfortunately you need a break here and there… or so they say

 

[khall1974]

I’m late to the party but I do 400/400 Test/Primo and pulse the Dbol 3x a week. I would run that cycle forever but unfortunately you need a break here and there… or so they say

That would crush my estrogen to the dirt. I have to at least do a 2 to 1 test/primo.

 

[Hyde]

I’m late to the party but I do 400/400 Test/Primo and pulse the Dbol 3x a week. I would run that cycle forever but unfortunately you need a break here and there… or so they say

How much Dbol do you like on those 3 days?

That would crush my estrogen to the dirt. I have to at least do a 2 to 1 test/primo.

The Dbol probably helps a lot as far as keeping some water around.

 

[BBiceps]

How much Dbol do you like on those 3 days?

I like 10mg pre workout. Low dose gets me the strength/pump/mood I like and I can still stay lean.
I don’t think I ever went over 10mg and I never did a really Dbol cycle (ed for weeks) so I never had any sides from Dbol, to me it’s a great drug.

 

[BBiceps]

That would crush my estrogen to the dirt. I have to at least do a 2 to 1 test/primo.

Really? Maybe a little higher Test is better but not sure about 2:1… That would mean 800 Test with 400 Primo or 1200 Test with 600 Primo.

 

[khall1974]

Really? Maybe a little higher Test is better but not sure about 2:1… That would mean 800 Test with 400 Primo or 1200 Test with 600 Primo.

That is my dilemma. I have to use the 2 to 1 ratio. Love the combo but it is what it is.

 

[Smont]

That is my dilemma. I have to use the 2 to 1 ratio. Love the combo but it is what it is.

Ratios are not always Linear. On on 200/200 or 300/300 someone might face low e. That same person on 600/600 might be perfect. 1000/1000 they might need a ai. The more test you use the more estrogen you get and eventually primo wont handle it, if primo or mast could just be scaled up indefinately then the ai would probably become obsolete. This as a expariment would make for a great cycle. Start at your 2 to 1 that you know works. Add some primo till you get some low e signs, now add test till they go away and go back and forth till you start maxing out your doses, or your wallet lol. Seriously tho. If someone wants a less risky BLAST then test primo pr test mast is probably the way to go.

But, if 400/400 gives you low e, that little dbol spot duty stuff also might handle the estrogen issue. Even 10mg a day You could run for a very, very long time. 5-10mg is a hrt protocol. So ppl have definately ran low dose dbol for years

 

[khall1974]

This is 3rd cycle of primo/test and that is what I need to not kill my estrogen. I was stating from my own experience.

 

[Smont]

This is 3rd cycle of primo/test and that is what I need to not kill my estrogen. I was stating from my own experience.

I understand that, how high have you dosed the test tho.

 

[khall1974]

Ratios are not always Linear. On on 200/200 or 300/300 someone might face low e. That same person on 600/600 might be perfect. 1000/1000 they might need a ai. The more test you use the more estrogen you get and eventually primo wont handle it, if primo or mast could just be scaled up indefinately then the ai would probably become obsolete. This as a expariment would make for a great cycle. Start at your 2 to 1 that you know works. Add some primo till you get some low e signs, now add test till they go away and go back and forth till you start maxing out your doses, or your wallet lol. Seriously tho. If someone wants a less risky BLAST then test primo pr test mast is probably the way to go.

But, if 400/400 gives you low e, that little dbol spot duty stuff also might handle the estrogen issue. Even 10mg a day You could run for a very, very long time. 5-10mg is a hrt protocol. So ppl have definately ran low dose dbol for years

I am at that age where I stay away from orals...haven't touched them my last 2 cycles and felt good with great blood work.

 

[khall1974]

I understand that, how high have you dosed the test tho.

Right now I am 240 primo...480 test.

 

[Smont]

Right now I am 240 primo...480 test.

So at 480 test you might not be converting a lot of estrogen so primo tanks it. If you ran 800 test then 400 primo might not be enough to control estrogen.
What i'm trying to explain is that the more test the more estrogen conversion. Primo wont just keep handling the estrogen in a linear fashion. So The 2-1 ratio will not always be the same. Make sense?

 

[khall1974]

So at 480 test you might not be converting a lot of estrogen so primo tanks it. If you ran 800 test then 400 primo might not be enough to control estrogen.
What i'm trying to explain is that the more test the more estrogen conversion. Primo wont just keep handling the estrogen in a linear fashion. So The 2-1 ratio will not always be the same. Make sense?

I gotcha now on your point. I guess I will do bloods again and see where I am at.

 

[Smont]

I gotcha now on your point. I guess I will do bloods again and see where I am at.

My only point was so that you keep a eye on it if you start jacking up the doses. Test and primo is definately a combo many could push hard.

I was actually watching a interview recently where the guy needed no ai on 600/600. Went to a gram each and needed a adex 3x week

 

[khall1974]

My only point was so that you keep a eye on it if you start jacking up the doses. Test and primo is definately a combo many could push hard.

I was actually watching a interview recently where the guy needed no ai on 600/600. Went to a gram each and needed a adex 3x week

Damn....I see what you are saying

 

[BBiceps]

So at 480 test you might not be converting a lot of estrogen so primo tanks it. If you ran 800 test then 400 primo might not be enough to control estrogen.
What i'm trying to explain is that the more test the more estrogen conversion. Primo wont just keep handling the estrogen in a linear fashion. So The 2-1 ratio will not always be the same. Make sense?

^This^

 

[CroLifter]

I know this is a cliche saying, but that’s a chick dose! Unless you are going to be on it for many months or just want the collagen synthesis and glucocorticoid inhibition.

I am probably the only person who really feels even 10mg pre wo. Sometimes the pumps are detrimental on even that small of a dose, ie. I lose reps compared to not taking it, I cant touch my shoulder! But I am also on a little bit of test an mk677, amd mk also boosts pumps and muscle endurance for me noticeably.


Since its so expensive, if you really got legit Var, it may be worth saving the Anavar for the recomp/cutting portion of the blast cycle and just going with test or test/primo while gaining.

 

[Smont]

Are there any ancillaries worth getting for a cycle of Var? I know it destroys lipids, is something like Bergamont going to help the damage at all?

I have no personal experience With what i'm about to say, But i've listened to a couple podcasts where prep coaches talk about how they use boat loads of fish oil post contest to get their lips back in check. Like stupid amounts, 18-27gms a day.

You also burp and sweat out fishoil all day

 

[Hyde]

I have no personal experience With what i'm about to say, But i've listened to a couple podcasts where prep coaches talk about how they use boat loads of fish oil post contest to get their lips back in check. Like stupid amounts, 18-27gms a day.

You also burp and sweat out fishoil all day

Walnuts for your added fats can be a cheaper way to do the same thing, FYI.

 

[Punkrocker]

I've noticed that a 1 to 1 ratio of test and primo tanks my estrogen. That's why I been doing 400 test to 300primo. But honestly I'm thinking to do 500 test. My doctor even told me that he'd rather see my estrogen slightly too high than crashed. I agree with him. Better for gains. My doctor literally told me that lmao

 

[Hyde]

I've noticed that a 1 to 1 ratio of test and primo tanks my estrogen. That's why I been doing 400 test to 300primo. But honestly I'm thinking to do 500 test. My doctor even told me that he'd rather see my estrogen slightly too high than crashed. I agree with him. Better for gains. My doctor literally told me that lmao

This is common knowledge for health & strength; only in bodybuilding is there such a fear of estrogen. Especially from all of the out of context supplement marketing.