12-16 Week Log SNS AXT/AE/Pepti Plex /PAXT/ MTEST/GFXT

[LeanEngineer]

Getting bloodwork tomorrow. Interested in seeing results.

It's always exciting to see what bloodwork results are after running certain supps for a period of time!

 

[ironfiend23]

Yes! Looking forward to getting the results to have more insight. Currently running the stack listed above.

 

[ironfiend23]

Still waiting on bloodwork.


I have to say...Pump wise I feel pretty damn incredible on this new stack. Wish I was a little leaner to maximize it. Not going to want to cut.

Strength was very good all week. Nowhere near all time PR's but taking it easy on joints for certain moves

Last workout was

180x5 on incline press
Chin up 50lbs 3x 5 ( probably 3-5 RIR)
Shoulder press 65 2x5 60 1x8
Row 80lbs 3x10 ( probably 5 RIR)
Split Squat 200 3x6 ea leg
Leg ext (plate loaded) 125 3x 10,9,8
Leg curl (plate loaded 65 3x7

Currently running
AM
Prime x2
Elite Curcumin x2
Epi Plex x 1
Recomp 20x 2
DCPx 2
Glucovantage x 1
M Testx 3 ( finishing up this week)
Ursa Gel x 6ml
Epi gel x 2 ml
Pine Pollen x 3
Hyperion x 1.5 ml (last bottle will be switching to DHEA gel...depending on blood work)

Pre
Recomp 20x 2
DCP x2
Epi plex x1
Pepti Plex x 4

Post
glucovantagex 1
slintenstity x1-2
DCP x 2
Lean Edge x2
Creatine HCL x 3g

Dinner
GlucoV x2
DCP x 2
Lean Edge x 2
Recomp 20x 2
Prime XT x 2
Epi Plex x1

Pre Bed
Growth Factor xt x4
ZMA XT x 3
Pine Pollen x 3

 

[LeanEngineer]

Pre Bed
Growth Factor xt x4
ZMA XT x 3
Pine Pollen x 3

That's a good pre bed set up. I may have to copy this. I was doing Growth Factor + Stress & Anxiety Support pre bed and it has worked for me. Adding in the ZMA and Pine Pollen would be the cherry on top.

 

[ironfiend23]

So blood work is back...

I guess have to take it with a grain of salt because it's a different lab. Suprised Estrogen is high...I would expect it to be low.

Also test is 300pts lower than other lab...shbg is higher.

Surprised since I ran 12 weeks of the original stack with 6 weeks of Hyperion.

Confused as to where to go now. Will keep this stack. I have some leftover arimahex ... I could stack that with the hyperion and eventually XPG Dhea.

 

[sns8778]

Bloodwork results from different labs and different testing methodologies can be very different.

That was one of the first things I learned with my endocrinology condition - was that if you wanted accurate testing, you needed to make sure it was done by the same labs and methods. UVA showed me a great example of this - they took blood and did it internally and then sent out to a lab and the results were surprisingly different.

The time of day you do testing can also play a big role in results and consistency of results.

I would not add 6-OXO to what you are doing. That's an ingredient that has always been known to help some people, but some people have seen estrogen increases on it or estrogen rebound from it. Even back in the original ph days when we made a lot of different ph's under CEL and people would ask us for 6-OXO, that's one I was never comfortable offering.

To each their own, I'm very pro personal choice, but I wouldn't add something like that in bc of other variables.

 

[ironfiend23]

Understood @sns8778 ,Steve, thanks for your input. With those estradiol numbers and SHBG what would you consider? Surprised the SHBG and Estro was high given the stack I was on.

 

[sns8778]

Understood @sns8778 ,Steve, thanks for your input. With those estradiol numbers and SHBG what would you consider? Surprised the SHBG and Estro was high given the stack I was on.

You didn't post the actual numbers, so I have no way of commenting. To be able to do that, I would need to see the numbers before and numbers after - but even then, with it being different labs, its hard to draw a direct comparison.

A good example, I normally use Labcorp. I went to a different lab a couple years ago bc the local Labcorp had flooded during a storm. Results looked like they came from a completely different person.

Also though, I'm limited in what I can comment bc there are products from other companies involved; and the way that works, if I say anything I don't like about even an ingredient, sometimes some companies take that as me saying something negative about them - which its not. There are just some ingredients I don't like and won't use in products for certain reasons.

You're welcome to pm me or email the info if you'd like.

 

[ironfiend23]

Oh wow...Lol...I definitely thought I posted them here. Completely understand where you're coming from. Thanks Steve

Test 808 in a ref of 264-916
Free Test 10.4 in a ref of 6.8-21.2
Pregnenolone 40 with a mark ref of <151
Dhea Sulfate 339 with a ref of 102.6-416.2
Estradiol 107 with a ref of 7.6-42.6
SHBG 75.9 with a ref of 16.5-55.9

 

[sns8778]

It's kind of hard to piece all this together because you've had some interesting abnormalities in your bloodwork, and I suspect some of it may be from using different labs.

Earlier in this thread, we questioned why your total test appeared to be so high to begin with and if that was actually correct or if that an abnormality.

Albumin 4.8 on 3.8-5 range
Total Test- 1116.0 H
SHBG-83 on 12-91 scale
Free Test 135.1 on a scale of 35-130
Bioavilable Test- 351.8 on a scale of 79-335

^^^ This is the original post referring to the high testosterone.

So Prolactin came back normal at 10.5 at a range of 4-21
FSH at 3.8 at a range of 1.5-12.4
LH at 2.1 at a range of 1.7-8.6

Prior tests showed high total testosterone and one free test lab showing high and another one showing very high normal.

Kinda stumped as to why libido has been depressed (performance too isn't as strong as I 'd like either ). Still wwaiting on Estro results to return.

^^^ You mention here that prior tests showed high total testosterone and one free test lab showed high and one showed high normal. At the time, I thought you meant lab work at different times, but you may have meant different testing labs.

Just got my estrogen back... 125pg/ml so I guess normal...maybe lowish normal. LH 2.1 out of 8.6 FSH 3.6 out of 12.4

^^^ Here you are saying your estrogen is normal or low normal, and in other posts you were considering trying to intentionally raise your estrogen levels.

You were stating 125 mg. then - but now in the next post, saying that you didn't understand why they were so high at 107 - but that is actually an 18 point decrease if you were talking about estradiol levels, but you didn't specify.

Oh wow...Lol...I definitely thought I posted them here. Completely understand where you're coming from. Thanks Steve

Test 808 in a ref of 264-916
Free Test 10.4 in a ref of 6.8-21.2
Pregnenolone 40 with a mark ref of <151
Dhea Sulfate 339 with a ref of 102.6-416.2
Estradiol 107 with a ref of 7.6-42.6
SHBG 75.9 with a ref of 16.5-55.9

This looks like a much more realistic total testosterone level - which would make sense with it being a different lab. I don't think that you can directly compare the results from this lab to the prior one. I'm not saying which one is right or wrong, but they're different enough that I don't think you can directly accurately compare them.

Also, note that you posted these as 2 of your free testosterone levels:
Free Test 135.1 on a scale of 35-130
and
Free Test 10.4 in a ref of 6.8-21.2

^^^ so there is no real way to compare the two - and I think also calls into question the results to begin with.

With different labs being used and the numbers looking like they really have no correlation to each other, anyone guessing at this is doing just that - only guessing. The variable of the wildly different results from different labs just makes it truly impossible to really know for sure.

May I ask the reason for using different labs?

 

[ironfiend23]

It's kind of hard to piece all this together because you've had some interesting abnormalities in your bloodwork, and I suspect some of it may be from using different labs.

Earlier in this thread, we questioned why your total test appeared to be so high to begin with and if that was actually correct or if that an abnormality.



^^^ This is the original post referring to the high testosterone.



^^^ You mention here that prior tests showed high total testosterone and one free test lab showed high and one showed high normal. At the time, I thought you meant lab work at different times, but you may have meant different testing labs.



^^^ Here you are saying your estrogen is normal or low normal, and in other posts you were considering trying to intentionally raise your estrogen levels.

You were stating 125 mg. then - but now in the next post, saying that you didn't understand why they were so high at 107 - but that is actually an 18 point decrease if you were talking about estradiol levels, but you didn't specify.

The estradiol were given much different reference ranges it seems. On the prior they were on the lower side of normal. This one significantly higher. Perhaps its all useless at this point


This looks like a much more realistic total testosterone level - which would make sense with it being a different lab. I don't think that you can directly compare the results from this lab to the prior one. I'm not saying which one is right or wrong, but they're different enough that I don't think you can directly accurately compare them.

Also, note that you posted these as 2 of your free testosterone levels:
Free Test 135.1 on a scale of 35-130
and
Free Test 10.4 in a ref of 6.8-21.2

^^^ so there is no real way to compare the two - and I think also calls into question the results to begin with.

With different labs being used and the numbers looking like they really have no correlation to each other, anyone guessing at this is doing just that - only guessing. The variable of the wildly different results from different labs just makes it truly impossible to really know for sure.

May I ask the reason for using different labs?

I agree, the multiple labs make it very frustrating. I originally had the first tests covered by insurance. They would not cover the follow up so I paid out of pocket for these.

 

[ironfiend23]

The original Estrogen levels showed as normal using their reference ranges it seem. This is pretty high given the current ranges. I was hoping to optimize health and make more precise decisions. But it does all seem useless at this point

 

[sns8778]

I agree, the multiple labs make it very frustrating. I originally had the first tests covered by insurance. They would not cover the follow up so I paid out of pocket for these.

The original Estrogen levels showed as normal using their reference ranges it seem. This is pretty high given the current ranges. I was hoping to optimize health and make more precise decisions. But it does all seem useless at this point

In one post, you said estrogen levels. In the other post, you said Estradiol levels.

Some people use those terms interchangeably, but there actually can be different tests.

Do you know if you were referring to Estradiol with the first test?

The reason I ask that is because I've never seen a range where 125 pg/ml is considered normal for a male to begin with.
I thought that when you originally typed it, but you didn't post the actual labs, you just posted the numbers, so I thought it may have been something different than what I was used to seeing.

Did it show that being normal on your actual lab report or did you look up the range online?

The reason I'm asking is because the range that I know of as normal for males, and this is directly from my own Labcorp bloodwork sheet showing normal ranges, is 7.6 to 42.6 pg/ml. (This matches your reference range for the 2nd test)

If you read it online, then my thought is that maybe there was some confusion bc if you just googled it, it may have shown that range being normal - but it would have meant normal for women, not for men.

Direct copy and paste:
Doctors measure estradiol levels in picograms per milliliter (pg/ml). In premenopausal females, normal estradiol levels are 30 to 400 pg/ml. In postmenopausal females, normal estradiol levels are 0 to 30 pg/ml. In males, normal estradiol levels are 10 to 50 pg/ml.

Last question for this post - what time of the day, if you remember, did you take all of these tests?

The positives from this, if I'm correct and you did misunderstand and misidentify it - would be that your estrogen level actually decreased, not increased. Another positive would be that I can also help with some next steps.

I do think that the different labs has caused a lot of confusion on this. But there's nothing that we can do to go back in time to change that; all we can do is make a plan based off the information that have now.

I'm a little more versed in this stuff, and endocrinology abnormalities bc I have a rare endocrinology condition and have spent an unfortunate amount of my life being referred from one endocrinologist to another - I've had testing done at, and been parts of studies done at both Duke and UVA and had everything up through pituitary MRI's trying to figure out why my hormone levels don't trail one another the way a normal persons does. As much as that sucks, I try to use the things I've learned to try to help other people that may be in odd or unique situations.