I understand what you guys are saying, But I never said anything about using knee sleeves as a crutch. I don't believe I've ever used anything as a crutch.Because i'm always working on fixing things, Im already Doing everything possible for my knees other than getting the surgery that I need. All the pt and mobility stuff, healing peps ect is Minimal help though.
Personally I want to train heavy and I can't train heavy (less then 6 reps) without pain coming out the hole, There's a little.
Bit of instability where I have the torn meniscus in my left knee.
So maybe my question should be.... What do you guys suggest I use When I'm training with maximal loads in the 3 to 6 rep range. And what makes wrapss a crutch for that? Is a belt a crutch for heavy deadlifts then, I don't deadlift that much anymore.And I don't traditional dead lift at all As of the last maybe six months. But I would use a belt because if I didn't I would hurt my back going over 375
Serious questions
I guess it is probably just differing interpretations, but in my view that is using those as a crutch.
If you can't deadlift past a certain amount without getting hurt that is definitely a crutch. It means there is something inherently wrong with your technique, coordination, or specific weakness in certain muscles in use. I view a belt a little bit different than sleeves and definitely than wraps and I generally think most people with most goals can find use out of a belt, but it shouldn't be a necessity. Someone should have to ability to lift to a max effort in various rep ranges without a belt, a belt is just going to allow most people to lift a heavier amount compared to what they can without it. If someone has a large discrepancy between what they can pull (or squat or anything with a belt for that matter) with and without a belt I'd feel there is an underlying issue they need to take care of.
That is getting outside of the discussion on sleeves and wraps this thread is on though. Regardless anyone with pain that needs a piece of equipment to lift without pain may still want to engage in using certain things if it does allow them to lift pain free, but should probably also still continue to look for underlying issues that need to be addressed to ensure they can eventually lift pain free in any scenario.
I think knee sleeves are probably a worthwhile investment for most people because they probably don't offer a ton of "aid" (outside some of those crazier comp ones out there) and even the ones that do "aid" some offer other benefits that may be worthwhile in the long run, again as long as other things are still being addressed.